Official LG xxLH90 Owners' and "Interested Parties'" Thread

[davidjschenk]

The Official LG xxLH90 Owners' and "Interested Parties'" Thread

Right--I'm starting up a thread for owners of and people considering buying any LH90. The full spec sheet, brazenly and perhaps even cravenly linked, is on the front page of valueelectronics.com in a very informative .pdf. Scroll to the grid containing all sets from the shootout, find the LG 55LH90's box, and download from the blue link at the top in there. The other two links, on the lower left and right, are calibration reports, showing just how accurate this set can get.

Product Description (also brazenly ripped, but this time from clevelandplasma.com):

Main Features
HDTV Native Resolution 1080p
Screen Size (inches) 55

General Features
Aspect Ratio 16:9
Contrast Ratio 80,000:1
Energy Star Compliant Yes
Refresh Frequency 120 Hz
Resolution 1920 x 1080
Response Time 2.7ms
Viewing Angle 178 degrees Vertical, 178 degrees Horizontal
Brightness 500 cd/m2
Compatible Formats 720p, 480p, 480i, 1080p, 1080i
Remote Control Included
Tuner QAM, NTSC, ATSC
Wall Mountable Yes

Inputs / Outputs
DB15 (PC Video) Rear Input
HDMI (1) Side Input, (3) Rear Input
Optical Rear Output
PC Audio Rear Input
Analog Audio (1) Side Input, (3) Rear Input
Analog Audio / Video (1) Side Input, (1) Rear Input
USB Port Side Input

Built-Ins
Speakers Built-in
Stand Included

Dimensions
Depth (Inches) 16.7
Height (Inches) 35.5
Width (Inches) 52.7


Detailed Specifications:

Screen Size 55" (54.6" Diagonal)

Native Display Resolution 1920 x 1080

Full HD Yes Brightness 500 cd/m2

Smooth Motion Technology Yes

Dynamic Contrast Ratio 70,000:1

Viewing Angle 178º / 178º

Color Reproduction 10 Bit

Response Time 2.7ms

TruMotion 120Hz

True Viewing Angle Yes

Much information about the LH90s and their competitors can be found here, starting around page 10 or 11:

http://www.highdefjunkies.com/showthread.php?t=1760

I look forward to people's reports on these exciting new sets!

-David

[Flyers]

Thanks David. I mentioned to that we should have some specific TV Model threads much like AVS that way were more focused. Thanks for opening up the LH90 thread. We need a Tosh SV670 as well.

[davidjschenk]

Thanks David. I mentioned to that we should have some specific TV Model threads much like AVS that way were more focused. Thanks for opening up the LH90 thread. We need a Tosh SV670 as well.

Hi Flyers,

http://www.highdefjunkies.com/showth...ighlight=regza

Ta-da!

-David

[Flyers]

I would really like to get some more information from eddicus about this set. The only I really don't like about LG, other than the bezel, is that because of the S-IPS panel, they tend to washout faster than some of the others using S-PVA panels. And I'm like you, I prefer a glossy screen rather than matte which to me makes it look more dull.

I'm going to have to go take another look at the set and play with the setting more. I wish I knew the calibrated settings from the shoot-out.

[Flyers]

Hi Flyers,

http://www.highdefjunkies.com/showth...ighlight=regza

Ta-da!

-David

Haha, awesome! Glad to see troub from AVS and an owner is here too. Do you know how hard it was to get some of the LH90 owners to post pictures? None of them had a camera. go figure!

[davidjschenk]

I would really like to get some more information from eddicus about this set. The only I really don't like about LG, other than the bezel, is that because of the S-IPS panel, they tend to washout faster than some of the others using S-PVA panels. And I'm like you, I prefer a glossy screen rather than matte which to me makes it look more dull.

Hi again Flyers,

Yes, I think those are two of the most serious concerns to be addressed right now. The S-IPSs, among other things, are known for slower response times, too, which is what keeps me just a teensy bit nervous about motion resolution on the LGs. Do you know, is the Regza also using S-IPS or is it S-PVA, or what? These things matter.

The glossy/matte conflict is a complicated one. In the end, I think it really comes down to one's chosen viewing conditions and personal tolerances. The glossy screens definitely deliver stronger perceived colors and black levels in daylight viewing, but they also deliver lots of potentially distracting reflections. The mattes are the converse of this. When the glossy LCD screens first got introduced, there were huge fights about it over another forum of some renown.

Yours,

David

[jkipster]

Thanks David. I started following this model "next door" and have followed you here. Looking forward to seeing more informed posts before I decide to buy (or not).

[DVSteve]

And I'm like you, I prefer a glossy screen rather than matte which to me makes it look more dull.

That's what I thought originally. But, having seen the LH90 next to the B750 & B6000, I'm not so sure anymore. The LG looked just as good as the glossies next to it. I'm really torn between the Tosh & LG myself. Even though I really like the LG, I just have a nagging feeling in the back of my mind telling me not to. I don't know anyone who owns one of their sets, and I also haven't heard or seen anything that would give me a clue as to quality. I put them ahead of Vizio, but I'm not sure how far. I remember on AVS back in the day that RPTV was the big thing (I'm NVboy over there, BTW), and everyone was ripping the Samsung because they were new to us & they were made in Korea. Not that there's anything wrong with that-hell, I lived in Korea for about a year. I just wish I had more confidence in LG as a company.

Anyway, $2300 for the LG or $2650 for the Tosh. My little brain keeps asking me if the Tosh is $350 better than the LG. The other LED options are so massively overpriced that it actually pisses me off anytime I'm at a store. I'm awaiting the arrival of the Tosh at the huge home furnishings store across from my office. I really hope I can come to a decision when I have the ability to see both. I originally planned on purchasing at the end of September since I'll be on vacation for a month or so prior, but everything (AVS threads, shootout, photos, etc.) is driving me nuts.

Has anyone found better pricing for either set anywhere?

[DVSteve]

None of them had a camera. go figure!

I don't want to ruffle anyone's feathers, but that kind of blows me away as well. Thousands of dollars spent on a nice HDTV, yet nobody has a camera that can take a picture of it. Yet everyone sure has some kind of game console, that's for sure. I've bit my tongue far too often, and for far too long over there. Is it so difficult to talk shop without always bringing up the bloody game consoles? I swear half the people on AVS are 21 or younger, living in a cramped apartment or dorm.

[MarcS]

LOL, how many threads have I skipped when I see "what are the best settings for gaming..."...

[South Side]

Dave,

I've followed you to your this new forum from AVS -- please don't branch out anymore. I hope this is the last stop for answers.

You said that you were in communication with LG -- if you can get a hold of a technically capable person then don't let him or her go without answering your questions around motion handling issues. It's the only thing that is keeping be from pulling the trigger. As them about firmware updates that may help fix this issue -- they do updates via USB in Europe.

Give them hell...

[davidjschenk]

Dave,

I've followed you to your this new forum from AVS -- please don't branch out anymore. I hope this is the last stop for answers.

You said that you were in communication with LG -- if you can get a hold of a technically capable person then don't let him or her go without answering your questions around motion handling issues. It's the only thing that is keeping be from pulling the trigger. As them about firmware updates that may help fix this issue -- they do updates via USB in Europe.

Give them hell...

Hi South Side,

I'm planning on it, yep. I definitely want to check on the ability to use strobing without FI, plus I want to know what the hold time is for that upcoming LG that Brimstone-1 referred to back on AVS. Also, did you see Robert's youtube videos of the shootout? Toward the end of it on Sunday night they showed the motion pattern again and everyone was barfing over the LG's performance with it, but then they turned all the motion software off and it cleaned right up! Everyone was totally happy with it! My current guess is that I'll probably like it best with all the motion smoothing junk completely off.

Oh, yeah--I do expect HighDef to be my new A/V home unless the situation at AVS radically improves.

That's what I thought originally. But, having seen the LH90 next to the B750 & B6000, I'm not so sure anymore. The LG looked just as good as the glossies next to it. I'm really torn between the Tosh & LG myself. Even though I really like the LG, I just have a nagging feeling in the back of my mind telling me not to. I don't know anyone who owns one of their sets, and I also haven't heard or seen anything that would give me a clue as to quality. I put them ahead of Vizio, but I'm not sure how far. I remember on AVS back in the day that RPTV was the big thing (I'm NVboy over there, BTW), and everyone was ripping the Samsung because they were new to us & they were made in Korea. Not that there's anything wrong with that-hell, I lived in Korea for about a year. I just wish I had more confidence in LG as a company.

Anyway, $2300 for the LG or $2650 for the Tosh. My little brain keeps asking me if the Tosh is $350 better than the LG. The other LED options are so massively overpriced that it actually pisses me off anytime I'm at a store. I'm awaiting the arrival of the Tosh at the huge home furnishings store across from my office. I really hope I can come to a decision when I have the ability to see both. I originally planned on purchasing at the end of September since I'll be on vacation for a month or so prior, but everything (AVS threads, shootout, photos, etc.) is driving me nuts.

Has anyone found better pricing for either set anywhere?

Hi DVSteve,

LG is a solid and respected company; they're not Syntax or Westinghouse. Those low, low prices on the LG are a definite attraction, aren't they? But understand, that's not because they're any kind of cheap knock-offs, or anything. It just happens that at least one retailer has a majorly kick-butt distributor who can score him crazy prices. Just to me personally, the 47" seems to be in the sweet spot for $$/performance.

Keep an eye out around here for the next week or so, because eddiscus, a very accomplished calibrator, has been revisiting the LG-versus-Toshiba question and right now he's digging the Toshiba after heavily tweaking some settings. I'm also planning to go up to Value Electronics next week to take a bunch of measurements and see what I can and cannot do with both of those sets. Lots of information should be coming out in the next week or two.

Yours,

David

[davidjschenk]

LOL, how many threads have I skipped when I see "what are the best settings for gaming..."...

Heheheheheh.. How about "OFF! Now go do your bloody homework!"

-David

[mjf6175]

Hey...new guy here. Came over from that other forum. What a relief that there is freedom of speech here. Appropriate on July 4th, no? So let me post a question / plea for help here. I am about to buy a new LCD. I think I have it narrowed down to the LN55A950 (3199 delivered) or the LG 55LH90 (2300 delivered). I was toying with waiting for the new Sammy B8500 but that is a couple of months away and probably $1-1.5k more.

AND I thought that the LG xxLH90's had 2mil:contrast and 240mz?

Opinions / suggestions are welcomed.........thanks

[Disco Batman]

LOL, how many threads have I skipped when I see "what are the best settings for gaming..."...

Just because gaming isn't important to you doest mean it deserves to be de emphasized. Just because someone games doesn't mean they are kids, living in their moms basement, cramped dorm or apartment.

With PS3 and 360 supporting high def resolutions, issues such as response time, IR, burn-in, and picture settings are important issues. Just as much as settings for any other content.

Looking forward to hearing and seeing more from this set, even though I'm not quite sold on LG as a company, toshiba for that matter either. Even though I do own a nice HE washer/dryer set from LG.

[davidjschenk]

Hey...new guy here. Came over from that other forum. What a relief that there is freedom of speech here. Appropriate on July 4th, no? So let me post a question / plea for help here. I am about to buy a new LCD. I think I have it narrowed down to the LN55A950 (3199 delivered) or the LG 55LH90 (2300 delivered). I was toying with waiting for the new Sammy B8500 but that is a couple of months away and probably $1-1.5k more.

AND I thought that the LG xxLH90's had 2mil:contrast and 240mz?

Opinions / suggestions are welcomed.........thanks

Hi mjf6175,

First off, welcome to the Freedom of Speech Forum! We're glad to see you.

The cost-to-benefit ratio is the very thing some of us here are trying to calculate regarding these recent locally dimmed televisions. The A950 and the XBR8 are the two heavily established and successful current offerings from Samsung and Sony and both are excellent, of course. I think you're absolutely right that the upcoming B8500 will be very expensive indeed, as neither Samsung nor Sony is shy about making us bend over for their top-tier products.

I will caution against being swayed by the current hype over stated n-million:1 contrast ratios and 120Hz, 240Hz and, later this year, 480Hz motion resolution. Much of that is so wildly exaggerated by these companies' marketing arms that their claims only fail to be lies under the strict, technical, legally binding definition of a lie ("I did not have sexual relations with that woman").

I'll be going up to Value Electronics next week to look at both an LH90 and an A950 with my calibration sensor and laptop in hand (well, in the back of my car...), plus a much more accomplished and informed calibrator will be working on the sets there, I think. A lot of information on comparing these sets should come from that.

Here are the things I already know and will be focusing on next week:

Samsung Advantages

(S1) The A950s have very clear, glossy panels that significantly enhance perceived black levels, colors and "liveliness" of the image. Compared to LG's matte screen, this will make images jump off the screen at you more.

(S2) The A950s have strong algorithms for the local dimming software to get as much mileage as they can from their relatively large locally dimmed zones.

(S3) Color accuracy and motion resolution on Samsungs are both known to be excellent.

LG Advantages

(LG1) The LH90s have literally twice as many locally dimmed zones as the A950s and XBR8s. In the 55" sets it's 240 zones versus 120 zones. Never underestimate the importance of that when it comes to minimizing the following well-known artifacts found in locally dimmed televisions:

• (a) "floating black levels," which means a dark region of the screen that is supposed to be black will be nice and black at one point in the video, but suddenly become significantly (and distractingly) brighter when something bright is put next to it in another part of the screen. At their worst, these floating black levels becoming maddeningly distracting even to the most causal observers.
  
  (b) "blooming," which refers to the phenomenon of regions immediately surrounding a bright object acquiring a bright "halo" wherein shadowed or black parts of the image are much brighter than they ought to be.

The most important things for minimizing these nasty image artifacts are having more LD zones and having more individual LEDs in the backlight. The 55LH90 has ~3,000 LEDs, which is a lot. I should have the exact numbers for it sometime next week. To my thinking, the much larger number of local dimming zones and individual LEDs is the greatest advantage for the LH90. It is one of the main reasons I'm so focused on it, actually.

(LG2) Price. The LH90s are just crazily cheap right now even though their design and build quality looks to be very good. I attribute this to two things: (1) LG is a hungry company and is fighting hard to break Samsung's hold on the LCD market, and (2) a few retailers just have amazing distributors specifically for LG products, enabling them to offer prices that even Amazon and Newegg cannot hope to touch.

(LG3) Because LG went with the matte screen, the LH90s will suffer much, much fewer distracting reflections than the A950. If one plans to do a lot of daylight viewing in a room with many windows, this can be quite important.

(LG4) Calibration potential. The level of image fidelity achievable on these LH90s is remarkable, especially when using its two fully customizable ISF modes. Using these, one easily can have one setting optimized for bright daylight viewing and another optimized for nighttime viewing. LG really seems to have worked hard to design these sets so they can be brought right in line with the image standards sued for movies and television. For me personally, this is the other thing that really makes them very attractive.

(LG5) The LH90s do seem to have significantly better (i.e., wider) viewing angles than the Samsungs and Sonys. I suspect this has to do with the type of panel they chose to use.

Well, I hope this helps. I'll post a lot more next week after I manage to run some tests.

Yours,

David

[davidjschenk]

Just because gaming isn't important to you doest mean it deserves to be de emphasized. Just because someone games doesn't mean they are kids, living in their moms basement, cramped dorm or apartment.

Hi Disco Batman,

Of course not--DVSteve, MarcS and I were just having a little sarcastic fun and actually kvetching a bit about the extent to which occasionally gaming performance seems to get overemphasized on a few threads. Please don't take it as an honest dig against gamers, or anything, as I don't think any of us intended it that way. Heck, I've been known to fire up the occasional FPS in my own off-hours (paintball with gonzo RPGs, man--love it!), and I'm a college professor, not a college student, so clearly the stereotype is only a stereotype.

Yours,

David

[mjf6175]

David....thanks much for that very detailed response. I read somewhere that LG reps quote "almost 3000" LED's for the 55LH90 with 240 zones. From your answer I take it that you too are swayed by the new LG 55LH90. From everything I can read or research, the LG LH is (in my opinion) on par with the A950 but so much cheaper. I was leaning toward the LG but was getting tempted by the 55A950 since it is probably at the lowest price (3199 delivered ain't bad, except vs the LG). Plus the established reputation of the A950.

SO let me ask....what do you know about 2 future LG models 90LHX and the LH93/95 which I believe are going to be the direct competitors of the B9000 (the only difference between 93/95 is the panel trim).

Thanks again...............

[Flyers]

David....thanks much for that very detailed response. I read somewhere that LG reps quote "almost 3000" LED's for the 55LH90 with 240 zones. From your answer I take it that you too are swayed by the new LG 55LH90. From everything I can read or research, the LG LH is (in my opinion) on par with the A950 but so much cheaper. I was leaning toward the LG but was getting tempted by the 55A950 since it is probably at the lowest price (3199 delivered ain't bad, except vs the LG). Plus the established reputation of the A950.

SO let me ask....what do you know about 2 future LG models 90LHX and the LH93/95 which I believe are going to be the direct competitors of the B9000 (the only difference between 93/95 is the panel trim).

Thanks again...............

I like the LH90 but I still think it is a little step below the Sammy 950. Even though the LG offers more LEDs and more zones, I think Sammy's electronics is much better.

Also, LHX=LH93/95

[mjf6175]

Thanks Flyers.....it cleared up my confusion over just what the LHX model(s) were to be. You are not the only one to have recommended the A950 over the LG. I hope that by Monday I will come to a decision. I just came back from BB. They have the A950 down to 3299 but I would have to add 7% sales tax to that, so the price I got from a vendor is still the lowest.

Unfortunately there is no 55LH90 (or any LH 90) on display at BB to compare the A950 to. Which explains some of the reasons for my search here.