Thread: Fedor Emelianenko vs. Brock Lesnar

From an L.A. Times Article (11/10/09):

Meanwhile, public clamor for an Emelianenko-Lesnar bout is being noticed by promoters.

Jerry Millen, M-1 vice president, said Emelianenko is free to fight Lesnar if UFC drops its demands regarding co-promotion. Millen said the more-experienced Emelianenko would "smash" Lesnar, a former college wrestling champion and World Wrestling Entertainment performer whose "ranking looks manufactured."

Added Millen: "Fedor's not ducking anybody. If UFC wants to prove it has the best fighters, step up and co-promote. Fedor just wants to be treated fairly. The UFC business model is to own the souls of their fighters. Fedor doesn't have to do that, and if the fans scream loudly enough, we can make that happen."

UFC's White countered that a CBS retreat could cause Emelianenko to realize the UFC is where the big money is. White said he'd be happy to extend a contract to Emelianenko to prove UFC has the world's best heavyweight.

"The guy just got his face smashed in by Brett Rogers. Do you know what Brock or [UFC heavyweights] Frank Mir and Cain Velasquez would do to Brett Rogers?" White said. "It's time to bring this guy [Fedor] in, to see Brock Lesnar smash his head."

I don't blame the UFC one bit for not co-promoting. Why would they do it? Why let someone else make money off something that you built and made into a success. Every business that Fedor and M-1 Global have gone into has crashed. Why let them ruin what has taken years to build? Without the likes of White and the Fertittas MMA would be like it was when the only way to see fights was on DVD and in small cities other than Vegas. I really enjoy watching MMA and because of the efforts that these guys have put into it, I can watch almost on a weekly basis, every month a PPV and some of the greatest matchups that boxing hasn't put on in years (decades even). I would love to see Fedor fight some of the HW's in the UFC, not just Brock, but Carwin, Mir, Valesquez, Kongo, but the reality is he would fight only once a year, maybe twice, not worth it to me as a fan. And if the UFC is so bad to it's fighters, why do they keep coming back? Why did Tito come back, or Randy, even Trigg and Baroni have come back. Nobody made them, they all had other options. People can knock the UFC all day, could care less, but the TRUTH is they have put together the best fights, fights people want to see. That's all any fan can ask for.

Originally Posted by War Eagle

I don't blame the UFC one bit for not co-promoting. Why would they do it? Why let someone else make money off something that you built and made into a success. Every business that Fedor and M-1 Global have gone into has crashed. Why let them ruin what has taken years to build? Without the likes of White and the Fertittas MMA would be like it was when the only way to see fights was on DVD and in small cities other than Vegas. I really enjoy watching MMA and because of the efforts that these guys have put into it, I can watch almost on a weekly basis, every month a PPV and some of the greatest matchups that boxing hasn't put on in years (decades even). I would love to see Fedor fight some of the HW's in the UFC, not just Brock, but Carwin, Mir, Valesquez, Kongo, but the reality is he would fight only once a year, maybe twice, not worth it to me as a fan. And if the UFC is so bad to it's fighters, why do they keep coming back? Why did Tito come back, or Randy, even Trigg and Baroni have come back. Nobody made them, they all had other options. People can knock the UFC all day, could care less, but the TRUTH is they have put together the best fights, fights people want to see. That's all any fan can ask for.

Great post, WAR. I couldn't have said it better myself!

Originally Posted by War Eagle

I don't blame the UFC one bit for not co-promoting. Why would they do it? Why let someone else make money off something that you built and made into a success. Every business that Fedor and M-1 Global have gone into has crashed.

Firstly Fedor has 20% ownership of M1-Global, the company started at around the same time as UFC. Its goal has always been to have the best fighters from around the world to compete. The UFC is more localised in America.

Second, M1-Global has a very strong presence in Russia, Europe and Asia. UFC doesnt.

Thirdly, co-promotion means that UFC promotes within America while M1 promotes in areas they already have a foot print i.e. Russia, Asia and Europe. Withought co-promotion, Fedors fans especially in his home country would not be able to see his fights.

Fourth, Co-promotion means that all profits, LOSSES and RISKS are shared 50-50.

Finally, Affliction was bought out by the UFC and instead of having its fighters fight on generous existing terms, they thought it easier to jusmantle the company and renew the contracts under more stringent and restrictive UFC terms.

Originally Posted by caliberconst.

100% Agreed. I have heard alot of people talk shit about dana and co promoting and as you said it makes no sense and is just a bad buisness decision. If it wasnt for ufc mma would not have anywhere close to as much popularity right now.

Look at who their fighters are fighting against, its mostly those in South/North America. All of their fights also occur in America. What happens if you happen to live in other corners of the world?


Compare M1 and UFC top fighters, look at the countries of origin (flags) of opponents. Also notice Anderson Silva's 3 of 4 losses came from Japanese fighters, this shows that the international circuit is very good albiet not as well known to casual American MMA fans.

M1 fighters

Fedor Emelianenko



Gegard Mousasi



UFC fighters

Georges St-Pierre



Anderson Silva



Brock Lesnar

Originally Posted by monaroCountry

Fourth, Co-promotion means that all profits, LOSSES and RISKS are shared 50-50.

That's my point, why would they want to share the profits with anyone now, the risk now is now where near what it was when they started and the few years after. So M-1 would come in now, and basically reap the benefits, with a low risk for failure or loss.

And Afflicition was bought out by the UFC, it gave up promoting fights, and went back to just being a sponsor.

Originally Posted by ChadMak09

I just dont get some peoples way of thinking.
Its so one tracked.
UFC was a great organization and helped pave the way for MMA.
But arena fighting is not a UFC designed thing.
Some seem to think that america is the only country in the world and the UFC is the only stage for MMA.
Sorry, but the world is bigger than your cable programming package.
Just because someone doesn't want to sell their soul to UFC, does not mean that they are somehow less of a fighter.
Dana white is friggin hilarious.
Disrespecting the best fighter in the world while promoting a wwe wrastler.
An organization that gives a wwe wrestler a title shot after losing his first fight in the UFC.
And people are actually defending this because Brock wrestled in college.
Wrestling is not MMA. Its only a small aspect of it.



Fedor is a real MMA fighter. ITs about mixed martial arts. Not television entertainment.
When Brock lesturd debuted in the UFC, they actually recognized his WWE belt during his introduction. ROTFLMAO!!!!!! What a joke!!!!!
"The former WWE world champion" brock Lesssssssturd. lol.

Trying to discredit the best fighter in the world, while promoting crock lesturd, really tells you how things work with dana white. UFC would be so much better without him. He is acting like he is one of the fighters and puts so much attention on himself. The guy cant go to the bathroom without twittering the details of his bowel movement..
It reminds me of WWF wrestling back in the day with ted debiasi. He is part of the show.

I hope shane carwin puts an end to brock the crock and its the last we see of him.
I would much rather see fedor beat brock and dana white apologize and recognize him as the best, but that wont happen.
Fedor would probably only sign with UFC if it was a last resort.
Why would he?
He doesnt need money.
Dana white and M1 global should reach a one time co-promoting event and let fedor beat brock for the fans.
But Dana probably wont do that. He wants to own fedors fights like a product. And fedor does not need danas money. So naturally, Dana is not going to like this and try to discredit him.

And many fans will go along with it and continue to disrespect Fedor while being all over crocks nuts just because dana white wants them to.

Its sad that MMA has been reduced to a WWF saga.
Real fans just want to see a mixed martial arts fight, which Fedor gives.
Not some steroid big baby pinning people against the cage in a steroid induced wrastlin flashback.
We want a technical fight. thats MMA.

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All you do chad is point at Brock, I don't see anyone here all over Brock as being the best. I don't think Brock is a better fighter than Fedor, but I think the overall competition right now is better in the UFC, all I said. You can talk shit and say I'm not a real MMA fan all you want, if it makes you feel better. Go ahead, I know what I like and how long I've liked it.

While I agree the UFC is not the be-all and end-all, I've also been honest enough to say Brock is the real deal. You keep pointing out that Brock was handed a title shot three fights in, which is one way to look at it, I suppose. The way I see it, though, Dana basically said, "Fine, Mr. Wrester. You want to fight in the cage, you get to go up against some of the best we have to offer."

Putting him against Mir in his first UFC fight was straight crazy. Brock actually performed better in that fight than I expected. Dana is a shit-talker....true. He cusses like a sailor, which annoys me as MMA needs to broaden it's fan-base, not alienate those that that bothers. But he and the Fertittas are great match-makers. They don't pad anyone's records (hence Brock getting thrown to the wolves....but then we find out he's just a bigger, badder wolf up to this point). The only real problem I have with Dana is when he personally attacks organizations (though he's usually right about them not being fiscally responsible) and fighters.

Dana has never attacked Scott Coker in the past, and he's actually been very complimentary about StrikeForce (until they signed Fedor). But to criticize guys like Rampage for pursuing acting or Fedor for not signing or Jon Fitch for not wanting to sign a bad deal for the UFC video game (and then cutting him from the organization until he signed) goes a bit far, IMO.

I believe he just said something about Brett busting Fedor's face up, so imagine what so-and-so would do. That's a crock. He's attacking Fedor and Brett. Brett fought a very good fight. I think Brett would destroy Carwin (as will Brock). Carwin (I like the guy) has already had his chin exposed by Gonzaga. I think Brock will KTFO him. I think Brett would KTFO him. Fedor's face gets marked up....it happens in every fight. Big deal. It's mostly Dana's "sour grapes" attitude that annoys me the most.

As far as co-promoting, I also don't blame him for not doing this. If it's a 50-50 split, no way in hell would I do it. Now, if it's based solely on cards that Fedor fights on and the split offers a reasonable amount, I think that's something he should make happen. Dana's been burned by cross promotion in the past, though. He let Chuck fight in Pride in their Lightweight Tournament (where Rampage whooped his ass) and was supposed to get Sakuraba and Fujita back here in America to fight in a UFC. Pride didn't follow through, so I'm sure he's a bit tentative about cross-promotion as is.

But StrikeForce is not pride, and I think Dana has more respect for Scott Coker (whether he admits it or not). I'd love to see a bit of cross-promotion between SF and UFC as they are easily the two best organizations, IMO. Some of the Japanese promotions are still strong, but SF and UFC have most of the top talent, IMO.

I'd love to see a Machida/Mousasi fight on CBS followed up by Fedor/Brock on a UFC PPV. No belts on the line, just great matchups. That won't happen, though, unless StrikeForce and CBS really take it to the next level, then the level above that. The UFC holds most of the cards right now, but SF has some excellent fighters....and Fedor. CBS made Carano and Kimbo quite the sensation.....what can they do with Fedor?

Well said, except the Carwin losing to Brock thing. LOL!! The big advantages Brock has over most is his size(1) and his wrestling, which helps him keep people pinned down, Carwin has just as good wrestling as Brock and is close in size, speed maybe not. But in the end it's a fight, and ANYTHING can happen.

Oh, I'll be pulling for Carwin, but I just don't see it happening. I thought Rogers had a better shot against Fedor than Carwin does against Brock. He's as big, but he's not as strong as Brock. He has good wrestling, but not as good as Brock's. His chin is obviously much more vulnerable than Brock's (when Randy landed a couple of shots....the kind of shots that knocked Tim Silvia on his butt.....Brock looked like he barely noticed them, and he took that flying knee from Mir without any obvious signs of being stunned....though I thought he was stunned).

Anything can happen, and I'll be pulling for Shane, but I think it'll be over in under 3 minutes, personally.

+1

Chad, where's the proof Brock's on steroids? Is everyone who is big and has a short fuse on roids? He may have done them beofre, who knows, but I see no proof now. The state athletic commisions test for it, they have never caught him. Are we supposed to believe their covering it up?

By the way, Does anyone here know how Frank Mir's face got all fucked up during his fight with that guy who just laid on him and held him down?
Just curious, cause his faced looked pretty awful!

Originally Posted by War Eagle

By the way, Does anyone here know how Frank Mir's face got all fucked up during his fight with that guy who just laid on him and held him down?
Just curious, cause his faced looked pretty awful!

He was getting nailed with some hamhock punches and a few elbows.

Originally Posted by ChadMak09

I dont know if carwins gonna beat brock.
I certainly hope he does.
I just hope Brock doesnt ruin the fight by laying on top of carwin.
But that probably gonna happen. Especially if crock get hit, he will evert back to what he knows best, which is wraslin.
Hopefully that wont happen and it will be entertaining.
I wont be buying it on PPV. I cant spend big money on a brock fight again.
Its just not worth it.
Theres too strong a possibility that it will be brock laying the whole time, or worse yet, brock may win the fight. Then I would have paid big money to see someone like brock win. which would be very disturbing.
It would be like paying money to see a criminal robb you.

Crock has something that most people of his size don't have, and thats speed.
He can move fast and keep balance and center of gravity.
Alot of It comes from the wrastlin acrobatics. But mainly from the steroids probably .
I knew a guy I worked with who was a bodybuilder and did steroids.
He could run for miles and very fast. and was also strong as a horse.
Those steroids are no joke man.
They can make you a freak of nature.
But the down side is that Russell (the guy i worked with) had a very short fuse and huge mood swings.
One minute hes your best bud, the next hes being a jerk.
Kinda like one minute being normal, then the next minute spitting into cameras, flicking off all the fans, and disrespecting UFC sponsers.
Then 15 minutes later being civil again and praising the very beer company you just criticized and drinking thier beer at a press conference.
Its like a non-stop rollercoaster ride with steroid users.
Its really hard on the familys. I am sure Sable deserves much better.

Let it go, man. Brock's for real...you're going have to deal with it. He may have a style that you don't like, but if you don't like guys going with ground-n-pound, you're going to have to admit that GSP is a boring GnP fighter as well. His last few fights have gone the same way as the Brock/Mir fight except we had to watch it for five rounds instead of him finishing it in the 2nd round like Brock did.

As for whether or not he's roiding, he's yet to fail a piss test, and it's not that simple to beat the system (ask Barnett, Sherk, Marquardt, Bonnar, Royce Gracie, Ken Shamrock, or the many other fighters who have tested positive).

As for the Mir-Brock II fight, I was floored by how good Brock was in that fight, and it was that fight that makes me believe he's going to be incredibly hard to beat....even for Fedor, but definitely for any of the other guys the UFC has to offer right now. I actually think Rogers, Bigfoot Silva, and Overeem all have better shots to beat Brock than any other HW in the UFC that pops to mind.

My $0.02.