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Thread: Panasonic Infinite Black

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    Thumbs up Panasonic Infinite Black


    Panasonic's new "Infinite Black Pro" technology will appear in many of the company's new 2010 sets this year (from the G-series up), including all the 3D models. A new filter has been devised which is said to minimize reflective light and increase through-the-glass transmittence from the pixels. A native contrast ratio of 5,000,000:1 is claimed.
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    I spent a lot of time at Panasonic's CES exhibit and viewed their demo of the new 2010 Infinite Black dedicated demo room. They had the Infinite Black directrly next to the current V10 in a almost totally black room. Both panels looked very good, but to my surprise I liked the current V10 pq better. It had more detail in the image and the black level was extremly close to the 2010 Infinite Black model.

    I'm at the show with 2 of my kids and we're working on uploading all of our photo's so stand by for the link.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Zohn View Post
    I spent a lot of time at Panasonic's CES exhibit and viewed their demo of the new 2010 Infinite Black dedicated demo room. They had the Infinite Black directrly next to the current V10 in a almost totally black room. Both panels looked very good, but to my surprise I liked the current V10 pq better. It had more detail in the image and the black level was extremly close to the 2010 Infinite Black model.

    I'm at the show with 2 of my kids and we're working on uploading all of our photo's so stand by for the link.

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    Nice! Thanks Robert for the update.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ntruder View Post
    Great. So what you're saying is that the 2008 Kuros will dominate the flatscreen performance category in 2010?
    No, actually I would take a stab and say that Toshiba might win the spotlight with their Cell TV, which is expected to launch in September, also Samsung's new gen look very black as well. I also expect Panasonic to improve the Infinite Black display and or it may have needed a proper calibration to show off it's best gamma.

    Finally, as I stated the Infinite Black was exhibited slightly blacker blacks, but the detail was better on the V10.

    I'm about to jump into my cab for the long trip home and will write more late tonight or tomorrow.

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    While most HDTV manufactures are focused on being thin and 3D, Panasonic still recognizes the importance of having great contrast and deep blacks. Hidden away in the Panasonic booth we pulled back the curtain on a contrast demo and walked away impressed. Now obviously black levels are very hard to compare without being either being very familiar with the content or by having the two TVs next to each other, but one thing is for sure, the 2010 Panasonic plasmas (on the left in the picture above) have better black levels than the previous models (pictured on the right). We snapped a few pictures (second one with a slower shutter after the break) where you can see the difference, and judging by how close the V10 series was to the ultra deep blacks of the Kuro, we wouldn't be one bit surprised if the new Panny sets make us forget about the discontinued Kuro line once and for all -- it might just be wishful thinking.


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    LOL 5,000,000:1 native contrast

    and Panasonic touted infinite blacks when showcasing their 2009 models, too.

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    Great infinite blacks for 4 monts then it wears off...........

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeak View Post
    Great infinite blacks for 4 monts then it wears off...........


    I'm staying away from Panasonics until this issue is sorted out.
    "The television screen is the retina of the mind's eye."

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    They could just change the name to "4 month Black Pro"
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    If the 2010 models are like the 2009 models the infinite black only works in vivid mode. My black levels have tripled in 8 months.
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    Quote Originally Posted by donnymac View Post
    If the 2010 models are like the 2009 models the infinite black only works in vivid mode. My black levels have tripled in 8 months.
    Wow! That's awful--I'm so sorry, donnymac. Is the problem correctable? I mean, can the black levels be reset by some means, or are you stuck with this? Panasonic certainly had better address this problem quickly and decisively. I'm sure we'll all be keeping a close collective eye on what they do.

    Yours,

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    It is not fixable and panasonic says rising blacks is normal. Lots of info on the "other " board about it. CNET also has a nice article where David K. who is their head tv reviewer contacted panasonic and is doing his own testing of two 2009 models for rising black levels. They also admit that this problem exists in the 2010 models but the rise in black levels will not be so drastic. This problem has also made IR a serious problem now.
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    Well with all this mess, it looks like I'll cross Panasonic off my list of potential suitors when I'm in the market again. The way it's going I may not have any reliable options.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disco Batman View Post
    Well with all this mess, it looks like I'll cross Panasonic off my list of potential suitors when I'm in the market again. The way it's going I may not have any reliable options.
    Yeah, when the standard bearer for build quality has issues like this and handles them this badly, where do you turn? I mean, Samsung plasmas are great plasmas and everything, but they have their own build quality and PQ issues. So where are the bullet-proof plasmas of tomorrow??? I really think Panasonic is damaging its own image by handling the issue this way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Disco Batman View Post
    Well with all this mess, it looks like I'll cross Panasonic off my list of potential suitors when I'm in the market again. The way it's going I may not have any reliable options.
    I'm also considering not buying a Panasonic plasma because of this issue. I've been contemplating buying a new TV for months (either LCD or plasma) and when these 2010 models came out, the 42 and 46 inch G25 series caught my attention. No more.

    I can't believe these tv's even have this issue, especially when Panasonic touts their "infinate black" screens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by So_Cal_Mark View Post
    I'm also considering not buying a Panasonic plasma because of this issue. I've been contemplating buying a new TV for months (either LCD or plasma) and when these 2010 models came out, the 42 and 46 inch G25 series caught my attention. No more.

    I can't believe these tv's even have this issue, especially when Panasonic touts their "infinate black" screens.
    This hasn't been a problem on previous models of Panasonic plasmas, and to me it sounds like it's a firmware issue. That or a piece of faulty hardware inherent to a specific construction date or range.
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    Quote Originally Posted by So_Cal_Mark View Post
    I'm also considering not buying a Panasonic plasma because of this issue. I've been contemplating buying a new TV for months (either LCD or plasma) and when these 2010 models came out, the 42 and 46 inch G25 series caught my attention. No more.

    I can't believe these tv's even have this issue, especially when Panasonic touts their "infinate black" screens.
    AFAIK the infinite black only works in vivid mode when there is a totally black screen. The infinite black s system shuts off the screen (not the tv) so that it looks black. As soon as there is any content on the screen it goes back to normal levels. A useless gimmick except if you want to measure high CR. Normal 0IRE black levels depending on model range from .005ftl to .010ftl on the 2009 models. Mine went from .009 new to .027ftl after 2000 hrs on a 50V10.
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    Quote Originally Posted by donnymac View Post
    It is not fixable and panasonic says rising blacks is normal. Lots of info on the "other " board about it. Cnet also has a nice article where David K. who is their head tv reviewer contacted panasonic and is doing his own testing of two 2009 models for rising black levels. They also admit that this problem exists in the 2010 models but the rise in black levels will not be so drastic. This problem has also made IR a serious problem now.
    Actually, the problem is fixable, as it's a software based issue (voltage software overdoing voltage increases to the idle luminance characteristics.) However, Panasonic is trying to dodge the issue because it would take a considerable amount of dollars to fix the problem. There is no way Panasonic would release a public firmware that involves voltage changes to the TV. A fix would require the TV to be brought in to a depot, or in mot instances a technician would have to come to the TV itself; very costly for Panasonic. In all likelihood, Panasonic is simply waiting for the issue to blow over. I believe a fix strongly depends on how much momentum the issue gains. Thankfully, many tech sites have picked up on the story, and Cnet has has even responded by taking the V10 of their editor's choice list.

    As far as the "Infinite Black" feature is concerned, it is most definitely a useless feature, at least on the 12G models. Firstly, you must be in Vivid mode. Secondly, there must be no signal information being sent to the TV. If you enjoy looking at blank screen, have at er'. Pure marketing gobbledeegook.
    Last edited by YukonTrooper; 02-26-2010 at 11:51 AM.

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    Ok, so I'm finally leaning toward the purchase of my first flat panel display, 55" or so; and I'm persuaded that plasma is the better choice for me. Two of the very most touted quality contenders still in production are kind of chopped of the list of contenders - Panasonic G-20, and the V10. I've lived more than 60 years without one of these beautiful and expensive beasts; and I'm not going to jump, credit card in hand, until the information at my disposal takes more clear shape. It appears that this time may well never arrive! It doesn't cost me anything to look but time (which at my age is not in infinite supply); however, I have been on the bleeding edge of technology often enough to know that it's a fairly risky and uncomfortable spot. I hate trusting luck.

    I'll keep my ear to the trestle. Recommendations will be most welcome if any here care to offer them. The Kuro came and went before I was interested, and that, by most accounts, was the Grail apparently.

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