Classe CP-800 Stereo Preamplifier

**gadgtfreek** · 04-19-2012, 07:36 AM

Conclusions About the Classé CP-800

This is one hell of a preamplifier. You get world class performance when used strictly in analog mode, and still quite excellent performance if you want to use subwoofers and some room EQ. In my opinion, this is a benchmark product.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/pream...amplifier.html

**Hi Resolution** · 04-19-2012, 10:35 AM

Very nice.....very nice.

**speedking** · 04-19-2012, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by Hi Resolution

Very nice.....very nice.

It's nice but I would have reservations about it..and I'm sure the Evil one(Dr 666 that is)would too...he says that op-amps are good now..I'm not so sure many audiophiles would agree with that statement..then the EQ features..especially the "Tilt" feature would effectively take out the real audiophile from a purchase...and when he claims that you can have "world class performance when used strictly in analog mode"..isn't credible..IMO..

This equipment is targeted for the digital user..IPOD..files..etc..and the person that.... while not an audiophile..wants something better in quality..but the problem is that maybe the target audience concept is flawed...it's not "audiophile enough" for true audiophiles..and too "audiophile priced" for digital users..which mostly don't use high quality files..so you have a minority buying audience..IMO..

**CALIBER** · 04-19-2012, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by speedking

It's nice but I would have reservations about it..and I'm sure the Evil one(Dr 666 that is)would too...he says that op-amps are good now..I'm not so sure many audiophiles would agree with that statement..then the EQ features..especially the "Tilt" feature would effectively take out the real audiophile from a purchase...and when he claims that you can have "world class performance when used strictly in analog mode"..isn't credible..IMO..

This equipment is targeted for the digital user..IPOD..files..etc..and the person that.... while not an audiophile..wants something better in quality..but the problem is that maybe the target audience concept is flawed...it's not "audiophile enough" for true audiophiles..and too "audiophile priced" for digital users..which mostly don't use high quality files..so you have a minority buying audience..IMO..

All good points speed. I tend to agree with what you are saying especially at a $5,000 price point.

**MDRiggs** · 04-19-2012, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by speedking

It's nice but I would have reservations about it..and I'm sure the Evil one(Dr 666 that is)would too...he says that op-amps are good now..I'm not so sure many audiophiles would agree with that statement..then the EQ features..especially the "Tilt" feature would effectively take out the real audiophile from a purchase...

Operational amplifiers have been around for at least half a century. (The first ones were tube circuits, for cryin' out loud.) They have very nice characteristics, so I don't know why anyone would assume they are bad. Modern-day op-amps are typically integrated circuits, but there's nothing wrong with that, either, unless you need the circuit to handle a lot of current (hence the deservedly bad reputation of IC output stages in power amps). There's a lot to be said for ICs, in fact. Anyhow, I also don't understand why the presence of any sort of EQ capability would be considered a drawback. Unless all the recordings you own are perfectly balanced (lucky, lucky you!), basic tone controls can be very handy sometimes. A tilt control, which I think Quad originated, is a particularly nice option sometimes.

**speedking** · 04-20-2012, 02:43 AM

Originally Posted by MDRiggs

Operational amplifiers have been around for at least half a century. (The first ones were tube circuits, for cryin' out loud.) They have very nice characteristics, so I don't know why anyone would assume they are bad. Modern-day op-amps are typically integrated circuits, but there's nothing wrong with that, either, unless you need the circuit to handle a lot of current (hence the deservedly bad reputation of IC output stages in power amps). There's a lot to be said for ICs, in fact. Anyhow, I also don't understand why the presence of any sort of EQ capability would be considered a drawback. Unless all the recordings you own are perfectly balanced (lucky, lucky you!), basic tone controls can be very handy sometimes. A tilt control, which I think Quad originated, is a particularly nice option sometimes.

The reason IC op amps exist and are used extensively is the very reasonable associated costs and their compact size. The compact size makes it possible to construct very compact circuit boards greatly shortening the signal path length, which decreases the possibility of stray capacitance and distortion. IC op amps usually provide good matching between stages, due to their integrated nature as everything is on the same substrate, which should provide a very uniform drift, which is not always the case with discrete circuits which can lead to stray capacitance.

The objections by the audiophile community are with the very high gains and relatively poor dynamics in terms of output voltage swings. Their high internal gain is problematic and can only be mitigated by using some rather complex circuitry. This circuity negates some or all of the previously mentioned "advantages" of a shorter signal path. In addition, they are often incapable of delivering larger currents(as you mentioned) needed for driving low impedance lines.

What you probably didn't realize is the "private joke" that transpired in my post..my forum friend Ev666il has certain likes and dislikes in the audio realm and I was merely "prodding" him with some elements of my post

...as far as EQ settings are concerned..it's not a big deal to me..but in the audiophile community it is generally frowned on by many purists...

I think this product will have a problem finding a "niche" market point..it's too good for non audiophile useage and not good enough for the audiophile community.

**MDRiggs** · 04-20-2012, 10:37 AM

It's just frustrating the way audiophile concerns, especially as regards electronics, have devolved over the last 40 years from performance to what a component is made of. As long as output is sufficiently accurate, who cares how it is achieved, except as a point of curiosity? Perhaps the fact that sufficiently accurate has been pretty much routine for 40 years has something to do with it -- people (and manufacturers, especially) seizing on other things as points of differentiation. Some of it is pretty wacky, though. A few years ago I had to struggle to convince a guy that platinum wasn't more conductive than gold, and gold more conductive than silver. Platinum was more expensive than gold, after all, and gold more expensive than silver. Get thee behind me, vulgar copper! <sigh>

**Hi Resolution** · 04-20-2012, 11:40 AM

This was the reviewers opinion of this "pre" amp.....Conclusions About the Classé CP-800

This is one hell of a preamplifier. You get world class performance when used strictly in analog mode, and still quite excellent performance if you want to use subwoofers and some room EQ. In my opinion, this is a benchmark product.

**ev666il** · 04-27-2012, 10:59 AM

Heh. I've noticed this thread just now. My bad for not stepping out right on cue, speed

I would have to agree Riggs on this: As long as output is sufficiently accurate, who cares how it is achieved, except as a point of curiosity?

My main point of concern with op-amps is that they are widely used because they are cheap. Also, they are literally packed full of an excessive amount of negative feedback. There are some very good op-amps out there, but they're relatively expensive and therefore not widely employed: the electronics with a set of Burr Brown OPA627 onboard can be counted on the fingers of one hand, and no piece of equipment currently uses the OPA1612; whereas lousy op-amps like the NE5532 are commonly adopted because they're extremely cheap (McIntosh's latest multi-format player has them, too; you'd expect something better than OPPO BDP-83 grade op-amps from a US $12,000 piece of equipment). The OPPO BDP-95 makes use of LM4562 op-amps for its multichannel output stage: they're not too shabby, but they only handle a very limited amount of current which is the opposite of what the Sabre DAC needs. A discrete component design can feed that DAC a lot better than any op-amp could do. These are just a few examples.

Btw, I'm told by an engineer who's quite knowledgeable about this kind of stuff that op-amps aren't just integrated circuits: they are a stage design. You could create a discrete component circuit that behaves exactly the same and has the same amount of negative feedback; or you could design a different kind of circuit altogether. An op-amp like discrete circuit wouldn't sound much different than its IC counterpart.

**Hi Resolution** · 04-27-2012, 12:36 PM

If you don't carefully examine the basics, which have far more to do with the sound than the other stuff, and rule them out, you're likely to go 'round in circles like so many others. Treat the circuit like a black box and fully characterize it, assuming nothing.

There are certainly excellent opamps these days, also excellent composite opamps you can build with JFET front ends, and excellent discrete circuits. IMHO there is no reason you can't get identical measured and subjective performance from any of them.