I will be returning my Panasonic ST50 today.

[breakdancefight]

I spent the last hour on the phone with technical support for my ST50 after the Panasonic in store rep told me that 2000hrs of break-in were necessary for break-in/prep of display. I explained to the person on the phone the situation that closing in on the 200+ hour mark on my ST50 that the image retention has been getting worse and happening faster. When turning on the display the Smart viera logo pops up during boot and I can see during normal viewing and can take normal content use or slide upwards of an hour to go away. I had no input selected while going to the media player to pull up a slide, so they could test the IR I was speaking about. You could see the "No input" banner, the menu wheel logo in the lower left hand corner and the photo/movie/music icons and text at the bottom during a slide. She asked me to tell her what I saw at the top of the screen I told her nothing and she then accused me of lying because if I was experiencing IR there would have been a Media Player logo in the upper left hand corner as well. I switched back to the menu and it was there in "black" I had explained it was primarily white and red that would suffer from IR and she proceeded to tell me that IR does not discriminate and that if my set was suffering from IR it would be any logo/menu icon left on the screen for 5 or more minutes. I have been a supporter of Panasonic as far back as the 3DO, my first widescreen was a 34" HD CRT and the ST50 was going to be a great addition, but after being called a liar I am returning the display. I will consider returning in 2013, but for now I am stepping away from Panasonic. I have no reason to lie I simply wanted to if were doing everything I could to prevent it from happening and all get is someone telling I am a liar.

[Dierk]

I spent the last hour on the phone with technical support for my ST50 after the Panasonic in store rep told me that 2000hrs of break-in were necessary .... image retention has been getting worse and happening faster. ..... the Smart viera logo .... can take normal content use or slide upwards of an hour to go away. .....she then accused me of lying ......after being called a liar I am returning the display. .....

Sorry that you have had problems, and seemingly not very good advice / help from Pan.

Some thoughts:
1) Paragraphs would make your story a lot easier to read!

2) Although somewhat beside the point, others have advised that the "2000 hours" remark lies somewhere between Extreme Carelessness and Sheer Stupidity on the part of the rep.

3) I did a fair job of "babying" our ST50 until some point just beyond the 200 hour mark - we were watching normal programming, including widescreen movies, well before that time, but I was Careful to avoid Static Images that seemed likely to cause IR. As have noted before, our Particular Panel went through a period of Heightened IR, from around 250 to 400 hours - since that time (and, in all likelihood, Throughout that time...) the set has become LESS prone to Quick Onset IR, and such IR as does creep in now belongs more in the Short-Duration category.
In these regards - onset of IR, and duration of IR - this panel is drawing closer and closer to our two older Panasonics, and I no longer consider it (IR) a Significant Problem.

4) At the same time, having changed at least once (around 400 hours, and for the better), there is certainly the possibility that it will change again, and perhaps for the worse, as appears to have happened to some owners of 2011 panels.

5) Disclaimer for #3: Although I do not consider IR a Significant Problem on the ST50, I still consider it a Potential Issue - just as I do for our older panels, and would for ANY plasma panel. It is obvious that different people have varied levels of sensitivity to IR, and that - for whatever reason - some panels seem to be more (or less) prone to IR than others, even within the same model year. I suspect that a lot of this could be accounted for by a Careful recording of Settings & Actual Content (& time displayed, of course) - but even then there seems to be a LOT of variance in owner reports....

6) The "Smart Viera Logo" that pops up at start-up has NEVER left IR beyond a few seconds after its disappearance - even during the worst IR stage of this panel. That it leaves a persistent IR on your panel at least implies that there is SOMETHING unusual going on, and I think that you are correct in reporting it.

7) Who did you speak to at Panasonic? And did she Actually call you a Liar? Frankly, would have immediately requested transfer to a Supervisor: CS Reps often get a lot of gruff during the day, and can certainly get a bit brusk at times. I usually find that a bit of Patience & Politeness goes a long ways, but there ARE limits that should not be crossed.

8) This is probably also besides the point, but we've have a couple of conversations with Pan CS Reps, and a Tech Rep, and were very pleased with the response we received. Our No. 1 Son also called Pan about his 2011 panel (Green & Pink tints - same problem we had in 2011), and had no difficulty getting a local tech dispatched to examine the panel.
Sometimes the way "WE" approach a "complaint" call can have a significant impact on how "They" respond. Perhaps that should not be the case, but if someone has been yelled at (or worse...) All Day Long.... well, as noted above, it can make them somewhat Brusk: "they" are also "only human."

9) Where did you buy the ST50? (Apologies if you've mentioned that earlier.) IF you otherwise liked the set (beyond the IR....), and are not completely beyond the point of forgiveness, you might see whether you can exchange it as Defective, AND receive not just a new panel, but ALSO a reset Return Period. (Amazon granted us both of these when our first 60ST30 proved to have an Increasing Pink Tint.... They delivered the new panel, and picked up the original, at the same time - most convenient!)

10) OTOH, given your experience to date - and doubtless an increased sensitivity to IR - you might want to look at the Samsung E6500 plasma: it is reputed to have nearly identical overall PQ as the ST50, AND to be considerably less susceptible to IR.

In any event, Better Luck with your next panel, whatever brand you choose to try!

[breakdancefight]

Sorry that you have had problems, and seemingly not very good advice / help from Pan.

Some thoughts:
1) Paragraphs would make your story a lot easier to read!

2) Although somewhat beside the point, others have advised that the "2000 hours" remark lies somewhere between Extreme Carelessness and Sheer Stupidity on the part of the rep.

3) I did a fair job of "babying" our ST50 until some point just beyond the 200 hour mark - we were watching normal programming, including widescreen movies, well before that time, but I was Careful to avoid Static Images that seemed likely to cause IR. As have noted before, our Particular Panel went through a period of Heightened IR, from around 250 to 400 hours - since that time (and, in all likelihood, Throughout that time...) the set has become LESS prone to Quick Onset IR, and such IR as does creep in now belongs more in the Short-Duration category.
In these regards - onset of IR, and duration of IR - this panel is drawing closer and closer to our two older Panasonics, and I no longer consider it (IR) a Significant Problem.

4) At the same time, having changed at least once (around 400 hours, and for the better), there is certainly the possibility that it will change again, and perhaps for the worse, as appears to have happened to some owners of 2011 panels.

5) Disclaimer for #3: Although I do not consider IR a Significant Problem on the ST50, I still consider it a Potential Issue - just as I do for our older panels, and would for ANY plasma panel. It is obvious that different people have varied levels of sensitivity to IR, and that - for whatever reason - some panels seem to be more (or less) prone to IR than others, even within the same model year. I suspect that a lot of this could be accounted for by a Careful recording of Settings & Actual Content (& time displayed, of course) - but even then there seems to be a LOT of variance in owner reports....

6) The "Smart Viera Logo" that pops up at start-up has NEVER left IR beyond a few seconds after its disappearance - even during the worst IR stage of this panel. That it leaves a persistent IR on your panel at least implies that there is SOMETHING unusual going on, and I think that you are correct in reporting it.

7) Who did you speak to at Panasonic? And did she Actually call you a Liar? Frankly, would have immediately requested transfer to a Supervisor: CS Reps often get a lot of gruff during the day, and can certainly get a bit brusk at times. I usually find that a bit of Patience & Politeness goes a long ways, but there ARE limits that should not be crossed.

8) This is probably also besides the point, but we've have a couple of conversations with Pan CS Reps, and a Tech Rep, and were very pleased with the response we received. Our No. 1 Son also called Pan about his 2011 panel (Green & Pink tints - same problem we had in 2011), and had no difficulty getting a local tech dispatched to examine the panel.
Sometimes the way "WE" approach a "complaint" call can have a significant impact on how "They" respond. Perhaps that should not be the case, but if someone has been yelled at (or worse...) All Day Long.... well, as noted above, it can make them somewhat Brusk: "they" are also "only human."

9) Where did you buy the ST50? (Apologies if you've mentioned that earlier.) IF you otherwise liked the set (beyond the IR....), and are not completely beyond the point of forgiveness, you might see whether you can exchange it as Defective, AND receive not just a new panel, but ALSO a reset Return Period. (Amazon granted us both of these when our first 60ST30 proved to have an Increasing Pink Tint.... They delivered the new panel, and picked up the original, at the same time - most convenient!)

10) OTOH, given your experience to date - and doubtless an increased sensitivity to IR - you might want to look at the Samsung E6500 plasma: it is reputed to have nearly identical overall PQ as the ST50, AND to be considerably less susceptible to IR.

In any event, Better Luck with your next panel, whatever brand you choose to try!

Thanks for the response, Dierk. It was probably a mixture of having dealt with this issue for the better part of this week and already having a bad day that made me so angry about it. I am not trying to get one over on anyone at Panasonic, I simply wanted advice from a representative of the company. I have a Samsung D490 plasma and up until the ST50 had a ST30, which my best friend can't believe I sold to him.

I have a lot of videophile friends, so I do a ton of research and talk a lot of shop with them. I don't consider myself an expert, but I am
well educated on the subject. I love that there is a community that we can turn of like minded individuals, but our love/hobby can be a very expensive one. Some of us will wait months for a product to release with hopes that it will perform as we expect with improvement over the last gen. In the case of the 2012 ST50 almost completely outshines the 2011 Panny line-up, with the exception of IR. I have cooled down and may simply exchange for different ST50 or a Samsung. Once again thanks.

[breakdancefight]

I returned and ordered the Samsung 51" E7000 it will arrive on Tuesday, pretty excited.

[GOS]

Will be curious of your impressions.

[Dierk]

I returned and ordered the Samsung 51" E7000 it will arrive on Tuesday, pretty excited.

Will be curious of your impressions.

Indeed: let us know how the E7000 looks!

[dansmail26]

Why didn't you save some money and go for the e6500, it seems to compare closer to the st50?

[breakdancefight]

Had Best buy giftcard and they do not carry the e6500 online or in store.

[JungleJack]

Hello,
Good luck with your new Samsung. Indeed the Viera Link Banner is pretty obnoxious and was turned off before leaving the Menu for the first time. I had a good friend over last night that has been staying here for a few days and he had no idea I owned a "Smart TV" as I simply do not use Viera Link aside from Firmware Updates. I do wonder if the Panasonic In Store Representative was perhaps self medicating as 2000 Hours appears absurd....

I am honestly surprised about the amount of IR you were getting as I have yet to have any. And I spent hours last weekend playing games just to see if would get IR. I did go ahead yesterday and add Best Buy's 4 Year Product Service Plan which covers Burn In as well as Dead Pixels, and many other things.

I am sorry you had such an negative experience with Panasonic's Tech Support. Personally, if I call any large corporation, if I do not like the CSR I am speaking to in the beginning I hang up and call again. At least 75% of the time I end up speaking to someone far more able and sympathetic to my concerns. Again, I hope the Samsung works out great for you and wish you had a better experience with your ST50.
All the best,
Jack

[ImRizzo]

Hello,
Good luck with your new Samsung. Indeed the Viera Link Banner is pretty obnoxious and was turned off before leaving the Menu for the first time. I had a good friend over last night that has been staying here for a few days and he had no idea I owned a "Smart TV" as I simply do not use Viera Link aside from Firmware Updates. I do wonder if the Panasonic In Store Representative was perhaps self medicating as 2000 Hours appears absurd....

I am honestly surprised about the amount of IR you were getting as I have yet to have any. And I spent hours last weekend playing games just to see if would get IR. I did go ahead yesterday and add Best Buy's 4 Year Product Service Plan which covers Burn In as well as Dead Pixels, and many other things.

I am sorry you had such an negative experience with Panasonic's Tech Support. Personally, if I call any large corporation, if I do not like the CSR I am speaking to in the beginning I hang up and call again. At least 75% of the time I end up speaking to someone far more able and sympathetic to my concerns. Again, I hope the Samsung works out great for you and wish you had a better experience with your ST50.
All the best,
Jack

Funny thing, when I've called Scv Tech's ( not including Oppo's), I always find myself on an out-sourced line to somewhere in the middle east. I simply talk gibberish and non-sense, then I indicate that I feel they are not comprehending or insulting and ridiculing me ( they are directed by management at that point, to turn the call over to an American agent, usually a supervisor). At that point I know I'm getting someone who understands and is in a position to resolve my problems, it works every time, because they do not want to incur a consumers complaint or lose a customer. Try it some time, but I do have to refrain from laughing, listening to the first responder trying to interpret what I'm trying to convey.

[JungleJack]

Funny thing, when I've called Scv Tech's ( not including Oppo's), I always find myself on an out-sourced line to somewhere in the middle east. I simply talk gibberish and non-sense, then I indicate that I feel they are not comprehending or insulting and ridiculing me ( they are directed by management at that point, to turn the call over to an American agent, usually a supervisor). At that point I know I'm getting someone who understands and is in a position to resolve my problems, it works every time, because they do not want to incur a consumers complaint or lose a customer. Try it some time, but I do have to refrain from laughing, listening to the first responder trying to interpret what I'm trying to convey.

That is brilliant! I will indeed try that very thing next time I need to call a company who outsources their CSR's. Indeed the difficult thing will be to refrain from laughter. I look forward to reporting back my experience. Thanx for such a fantastic tip.

[breakdancefight]

I am loving my E7000 thus far. I feel the Samsung plasma's still lag behind the Panasonic overall black level performance, but make up for it with a more natural picture. I love Panasonic and the ST50 was a sight to behold with it's inky blacks, but felt it looked overly digital. The Samsung has a softer natural look to it, but I don't know if softer is a good term makes it sound like it has a soft focus or something. I just feel they are pretty different PQ each having +/-. Coming from the ST50 initially I was stunned how different the black levels were from set to set, but running the E7000 with break-in slides since Monday evening the Samsung seems to be settling in and the picture seem to be improving.

[NightHawk]

I am loving my E7000 thus far. I feel the Samsung plasma's still lag behind the Panasonic overall black level performance, but make up for it with a more natural picture. I love Panasonic and the ST50 was a sight to behold with it's inky blacks, but felt it looked overly digital. The Samsung has a softer natural look to it, but I don't know if softer is a good term makes it sound like it has a soft focus or something. I just feel they are pretty different PQ each having +/-. Coming from the ST50 initially I was stunned how different the black levels were from set to set, but running the E7000 with break-in slides since Monday evening the Samsung seems to be settling in and the picture seem to be improving.

Interesting observations - others have described the Samsung plasmas picture appearing 'sharper' and the Panasonic plasmas being 'softer' and more 'natural' in comparison.

[JungleJack]

I am loving my E7000 thus far. I feel the Samsung plasma's still lag behind the Panasonic overall black level performance, but make up for it with a more natural picture. I love Panasonic and the ST50 was a sight to behold with it's inky blacks, but felt it looked overly digital. The Samsung has a softer natural look to it, but I don't know if softer is a good term makes it sound like it has a soft focus or something. I just feel they are pretty different PQ each having +/-. Coming from the ST50 initially I was stunned how different the black levels were from set to set, but running the E7000 with break-in slides since Monday evening the Samsung seems to be settling in and the picture seem to be improving.

Hello,
I am so glad you are happy with your Samsung. That is an interesting observation about the Samsung looking more natural as one of the xT50's strengths is accurate Color Decoding.
Moreover, I have not read too many folks ascribe the word digital to describe how these PDP's look.

I did look at the Samsung's when purchasing my GT50. For me, it was not a difficult decision. I must admit to a bit of bias against Samsung. For some reason I think of them along with Hyundai and Kia. I realize that Samsung is really doing well across the board and own the Android Market. I also realize Hyundai's Genesis V8 is a very impressive piece of engineering. I still gravitate towards the Japanese brands. And I know 50 years ago Japanese brands dealt with this same negative bias...
Cheers,
JJ

[breakdancefight]

Interesting observations - others have described the Samsung plasmas picture appearing 'sharper' and the Panasonic plasmas being 'softer' and more 'natural' in comparison.

I use mine for a gaming set primarily and the depth created with the E7000 is different in the fact that it seems to have more natural atmospheric details and the Panasonic seemed to have scene interpolation employed at all times (I had none of the smooth motion employed). The ST50 seemed to always have have some overly sharp motion spikes, like the set was kicking in the 2500FFD to compensate for the 30hz (30fps) locked frame rate of console games. I could just be very sensitive to motion as well.

[Bigmac]

I use mine for a gaming set primarily and the depth created with the E7000 is different in the fact that it seems to have more natural atmospheric details and the Panasonic seemed to have scene interpolation employed at all times (I had none of the smooth motion employed). The ST50 seemed to always have have some overly sharp motion spikes, like the set was kicking in the 2500FFD to compensate for the 30hz (30fps) locked frame rate of console games. I could just be very sensitive to motion as well.

I see often what you are talking about. Panasonics have very unnatural movements. Samsungs are as smooth as silk.

[dansmail26]

Isn't there somebody on this forum that just goes around bashing Panasonic?

[zappahead]

I see often what you are talking about. Panasonics have very unnatural movements. Samsungs are as smooth as silk.

Panasonic TV's have poor video processing that's why
most owners use a external video processor like
DVDO EDGE or some other more costly AVR.

[JungleJack]

Panasonic TV's have poor video processing that's why
most owners use a external video processor like
DVDO EDGE or some other more costly AVR.

That is utter bollocks. Just read the Home Theater Magazine Review of the ST50 and the just released VT50 Review where they preformed Video Bench Tests on both. While I understand not wanting to keep a Panasonic or even own one in favor of a Samsung or anything else, there is not need for unsubstantiated statements like this,

[JungleJack]

And this is from the Sound & Vision Review of the ST50:
"Gamma in the Cinema preset’s default setting measured somewhat below than the 2.2 target throughout the set’s full brightness range — a result that I was able to improve upon during calibration in Custom mode. The set’s black level measured 0.004 ftL in Custom — a notably better number than Panasonic’s TC-P55VT30 and Samsung’s PN59D8000 (both 2011 S+V Editor’s Choice award winners), which delivered a black level of 0.006 and 0.007 fTL, respectively. Picture uniformity was excellent with full-field patterns at all grayscale steps.

The set displayed full picture resolution for allsignal formats delivered via HDMI, though 480i-rez patterns looked soft when a component-video connection was used. Motion-resolution tests revealed a full 1,200 lines with the Motion Smoothing setting enabled and 700 lines when it was switched off. (Motion Smoothing added a distracting “video look” effect to film-based content at all settings, however.) The set aced most of our film and video deinterlacing tests when the 3:2 pulldown option was selected, slipping only on the HQV DVD’s 2:2 pulldown pattern. Its Video, Block, and Mosquito noise-reduction settings proved effective at all steps, and also didn’t introduce picture softening when applied to standard- or high-def signals. — A.G."