Official Panasonic 2011 TC-PxxST30 Thread

[wojtek]

I just did a calculation, and at my distance of 8 ft, sitting in a chair, the horizontal center line of a 55" set will be at my eye level. Problem is, I have a bad back and can't sit for very long, and sometimes I watch from the floor to give my back a rest.

From the floor, my viewing angle to the horizontal center line becomes 20 degrees. I really hope that there will be no visible picture dimming at that angle. Any info regarding at what angle the dimming kicks in is appreciated.

[jmpage2]

He earlier reported it was about 50 degrees, which is a pretty major angle away from center on the horizontal.

[speedking]

I just did a calculation, and at my distance of 8 ft, sitting in a chair, the horizontal center line of a 55" set will be at my eye level. Problem is, I have a bad back and can't sit for very long, and sometimes I watch from the floor to give my back a rest.

From the floor, my viewing angle to the horizontal center line becomes 20 degrees. I really hope that there will be no visible picture dimming at that angle. Any info regarding at what angle the dimming kicks in is appreciated.

It won't be a problem for you..I look at it as more as an observation...not a real problem....

[RichB]

He earlier reported it was about 50 degrees, which is a pretty major angle away from center on the horizontal.

I believe D-Nice reported that the 50 degree angle applied to the vertical.
If so, I think it is not a big deal.
Actually, it might stop my kids from standing right under it

- Rich

[jmpage2]

Yes, sorry, I meant vertical.

[D-Nice]

He earlier reported it was about 50 degrees, which is a pretty major angle away from center on the horizontal.

All of this really depends on where you are in relation to the center of this display. I'm 6'2" and this display is sitting on a stand that roughly 18" tall. I saw this brightness drop when I stood up from being seated about 6 feet away. If someone is going to have this display mounted on a wall, more than likely this vertical dimming is going to be absolutely irrelevant. However, if you plan on placing this display on a stand, it may be a concern.

[D-Nice]

See post #46

50 degrees at 6' dictates the eyes must be over 7' above or below the centerline of the panel.

50 degrees at 10' dictates the eyes must be almost 12' above/below the centerline of the panel.

At 15' your pushing 18' off center.

Sounds like a non-issue.


Edit: As a real world example, my current wall mounted layout is ~9.5 degrees from seated eye height to screen center at about 12'.

[wojtek]

All of this really depends on where you are in relation to the center of this display. I'm 6'2" and this display is sitting on a stand that roughly 18" tall. I saw this brightness drop when I stood up from being seated about 6 feet away. If someone is going to have this display mounted on a wall, more than likely this vertical dimming is going to be absolutely irrelevant. However, if you plan on placing this display on a stand, it may be a concern.

D-Nice:

Based on the scenario you just described (standing up from being seated at 6 feet), the angle at which you saw the vertical dimming was about 45 degrees. That is in good agreement with your 50 degree estimate earlier.

I am wondering at what angle the dimming starts to occur (ie is there a viewing angle bracket at which the brightness is constant, beyond which the dimming starts).

[vfr]

Based on the scenario you just described (standing up from being seated at 6 feet), the angle at which you saw the vertical dimming was about 45 degrees. That is in good agreement with your 50 degree estimate earlier.

An 18" AV stand + ~15" vertically above the AV stand surface to screen centerline = 2.75'.

Given a ~ 6' eye height the difference is 3.25' (6 - 2.75) above the centerline.

So with a 6' distance and a 3.25' height above centerline the angle is ~ 28 degrees.

[jmpage2]

All of this really depends on where you are in relation to the center of this display. I'm 6'2" and this display is sitting on a stand that roughly 18" tall. I saw this brightness drop when I stood up from being seated about 6 feet away. If someone is going to have this display mounted on a wall, more than likely this vertical dimming is going to be absolutely irrelevant. However, if you plan on placing this display on a stand, it may be a concern.

I appreciate the observation but don't see this as much of a concern. First of all we do most of our viewing from a seated position, the closest of which are about 10-11 feet away from what would be a 65" screen. Those who might be walking around and viewing the TV would be over 15' away. I'm not too concerned about anyone tall enough to be at such an angle that the vertical dimming would come into play.

[D-Nice]

As I said before, it may or may not be a concern and its dependent on an individual's home setup.

I appreciate the observation but don't see this as much of a concern. First of all we do most of our viewing from a seated position, the closest of which are about 10-11 feet away from what would be a 65" screen. Those who might be walking around and viewing the TV would be over 15' away. I'm not too concerned about anyone tall enough to be at such an angle that the vertical dimming would come into play.

[jmpage2]

As I said before, it may or may not be a concern and its dependent on an individual's home setup.

Like I said, I value the observation, I wonder if there's a way to get a measurement on what the impact of the reduced light output is at different vertical angles.

[D-Nice]

Those measurements will be in my review.

Like I said, I value the observation, I wonder if there's a way to get a measurement on what the impact of the reduced light output is at different vertical angles.

[wojtek]

An 18" AV stand + ~15" vertically above the AV stand surface to screen centerline = 2.75'.

Given a ~ 6' eye height the difference is 3.25' (6 - 2.75) above the centerline.

So with a 6' distance and a 3.25' height above centerline the angle is ~ 28 degrees.

I was never good at trigonometry, so I believe your calculations more than mine.

Having said that, I think vertical dimming is a potentially serious issue worthy of further study and review.

I'd be interested in knowing the angle at which the onset of the dimming starts to be visible at 8 feet distance.

[Robert Zohn]

I don't know how to explain this, but our experience was different.

Just today, Ed Johnson calibrated and we all carefully evaluated and discussed all of the attributes of the ST30 and we did not see much vertical (viewing from above the panel) or horizontal (viewing from below the panel) degradation till we were pretty much standing on top of the panel. I don't want to guess at the angle as we have all left my store, but I will measure it tomorrow.

It's great to see all of the attention these great displays are getting.

-Robert

[D-Nice]

It all depends on where the display is. The one I have was on a 18" tall stand. Did you have the one in your store mounted on the wall? If so, I don't think that would ever show what I'm talking about unless someone is right up on the screen.

I currently have the 50ST30 sitting on the floor right below my 141FD. Sitting on the floor I start to see the dimming when I am less than 2.5' away (non issue). If I get on my knees, I start to see the dimming from 5' out and closer. The dimming starts at the bottom and slowly creeps upward as I get closer to the display. It really does remind me of dimming on RPTVs and off-axis viewing on some of the better off-axis performing LCDs. I've never seem this type of behavior on a plasma.

I don't know how to explain this, but our experience was different.

Just today, Ed Johnson calibrated and we all carefully evaluated and discussed all of the attributes of the ST30 and we did not see much vertical (viewing from above the panel) or horizontal (viewing from below the panel) degradation till we were pretty much standing on top of the panel. I don't want to guess at the angle as we have all left my store, but I will measure it tomorrow.

It's great to see all of the attention these great displays are getting.

-Robert

[Pioneer]

I saw an ST30 today and the AR filter was superb. Blacks looked inky even under store lights. And it seemed really bright too.

I looked for the vertical dimming, and I did notice the picture become slightly dimmer as I walked up to it and looked from above. But it was very subtle. I wasn't like a RPTV where the picture literally disappears if you move to the side.

[davidjschenk]

I just did a calculation, and at my distance of 8 ft, sitting in a chair, the horizontal center line of a 55" set will be at my eye level. Problem is, I have a bad back and can't sit for very long, and sometimes I watch from the floor to give my back a rest.

From the floor, my viewing angle to the horizontal center line becomes 20 degrees. I really hope that there will be no visible picture dimming at that angle. Any info regarding at what angle the dimming kicks in is appreciated.

Hi wojtek,

I just got home an hour ago, and I can confidently report that you will not likely notice any picture dimming unless you are very far above or below the TV. I had to stand almost on top of the thing to notice it. Remember, the stuff D-Nice sees is being viewed by a professional whose eyes are very acute indeed. Speaking as an amateur, I saw nothing on Robert's ST30 that would make me nervous.

Yours,

David

[ClevelandPlasma]

I saw an ST30 today and the AR filter was superb. Blacks looked inky even under store lights. And it seemed really bright too.

Very nice to see people getting to see these units in stores and commenting how they look good instead of reading to deeply into reveiws.......

[davidjschenk]

It all depends on where the display is. The one I have was on a 18" tall stand. Did you have the one in your store mounted on the wall? If so, I don't think that would ever show what I'm talking about unless someone is right up on the screen.

I currently have the 50ST30 sitting on the floor right below my 141FD. Sitting on the floor I start to see the dimming when I am less than 2.5' away (non issue). If I get on my knees, I start to see the dimming from 5' out and closer. The dimming starts at the bottom and slowly creeps upward as I get closer to the display. It really does remind me of dimming on RPTVs and off-axis viewing on some of the better off-axis performing LCDs. I've never seem this type of behavior on a plasma.

Hi D-Nice,

Hm. This is funky to me. At what angle are you when sitting 5' out? I freely admit, I couldn't get a really precise visual read on the thing because other TVs next to Robert's ST were turned on, so the ambient light probably negated some of it, but I really didn't see any serious dimming until I got right on top of that sucker. The poorer black levels versus the GT25 were obvious, though. About that there was no question. Even so, it seemed to rise out of black more smoothly and its colors and grayscale were significantly improved over the GT25.

I'm going back to Robert's shop in a few weeks, so I'd like to try and check out the dimming you saw. If the TV is, say, 3' off the ground and I get right down on the floor at 5' out, should I be able to notice this in a dark room?

Yours,

David

P.S.: Is there any reliable way of calibrating for 3D yet??? That in particular is driving me crazy. When can we expect to see some reliable standards in place?