2011 Panasonic Fluctuating Brightness Master Discussion Thread

[jkozlow3]

Some Important A Board Install Findings:

I took before/after pictures of the service menu values when getting my A board replaced. Interestingly, the tech actually did the same for some reason. The tech indicated that the only value which should change is the PDP EEP number (that's what he was checking for), and he was correct. Only the PDP EEP changed on my 65" VT30 and the value went from 84.44 to 84.46 after the update.

Now, for the bad news for those getting A boards replaced...

All of the red/blue/green drives in the service menu which balance greyscale will differ from your original values after the A board update (at least this was the case for me). As I understand it, each display has the same initial values for the Cool/Normal/Warm color temperatures in the service menu when it is first assembled. At the factory, each display then undergoes a quick/rough calibration to account for panel variances. For example, this might result in a blue drive value of "70" on my display and a value of "65" on yours, but the end result should yield roughly the same measured/visible color temp.

After my A board replacement, my service menu drive values not only differed from my calibrated values (personal calibration - not pro), they differed (SIGNIFICANTLY) from the original factory values that I had recorded. While I certainly wasn't impressed with the factory greyscale calibration, the values on the new A board appear to be default values before each display gets it's rough factory calibration and were quite different than the values my display shipped with. I would expect this to yield worse than out-of-the-box results for anyone who doesn't get/do a greyscale calibration after receiving a new A board.

I've since restored my calibrated settings in the service menu and the picture now looks visually about the same as it did before installing the new A board. I'll measure it tonight with a meter to see if anything needs to be tweaked slightly. UPDATE: the measured results were very, very close after transferring my settings over to the new A board just as I suspected.

And of course, as many have reported already, FBr now appears to be pretty much gone after some minimal testing I've done! I've used the extremely problematic Casino Royale Montenegro external train shot as well as some shots around the 30 minute mark on 127 Hours and things are looking much better than before. While I can still see the slightest hint of FBr at certain contrast settings on some of the more problematic scenes (and I mean the SLIGHTEST hint, which I'd have never noticed if I didn't go looking for it on a scene which previously had bad FBr), this is a huge improvement and enough to call the problem 'fixed' for me!

[saittoh]

pretty d@mn pissed.

Guy came over today to install my new A-board and even though he confirmed before hand it was the updated version, i confirmed it still had Fbr after the 1.25 hours it took him to install everything.

He found out by calling tech support and reading off the printed # across the SD card slot on the A-board. If that number is printed, it's an old version.
The updated version should have some handwriting across the top of the SD card instead.

The tech said he needed to order that version and come back when it comes in.

So check with them when the part comes in, I have a 55GT30 if this helps anyone.

[samdee]

After my A board replacement, my service menu drive values not only differed from my calibrated values (personal calibration - not pro), they differed (SIGNIFICANTLY) from the original factory values that I had recorded. ...[snip][snip]... I've since restored my calibrated settings in the service menu and the picture now looks visually about the same as it did before installing the new A board.

This may be a silly question, but if we reenter in our post calibration service menu (SM)numbers, will we be pretty much back to where we were prior to the A-Board replacement? I have both the original values recorded, and my post D-Nice panel prep numbers. Once the board is replaced, and the recorded per panel SM values re-entered back to the original OOB values, will the panel be off by the offset of the rough factory calibration? Does that make sense? I ask because I am not sure if the panel driving is done from that board (sounds as so), so reentering the original values will bring it back to the same OOB settings. I image it'll be close, but still off.

Too bad Panasonic can't include a "quick" pro calibration for the hassle of all this "fixing"...

[jkozlow3]

This may be a silly question, but if we reenter in our post calibration service menu (SM)numbers, will we be pretty much back to where we were prior to the A-Board replacement?

I believe so. I'm going to measure my greyscale with my i1D2 in an hour or so to confirm. That said, the i1D2 isn't the most accurate meter and isn't particularly good for comparing measurements taken on different days. I believe my picture looks very close to the way it did before replacing the A board after re-entering my calibrated SM values however.

[Ryebread]

My A-Board was replaced today. I used a scene from The Social Network as my reference (during a legal hearing, he stands up and makes a statement and the chalkboard in the background goes a shade darker). Saw it very clearly before the replacement, could not detect it afterwards. I'll do some more hardcore testing tonight and maybe this weekend, if hurricane Irene wants to cooperate.

[Doomzday]

I would bet real money that it doesn't have the fix. My VT30, which is a May build date, didn't exhibit any fluctuations until last week. Even now, it's almost impossible for me to find them. I haven't seen them on any of the test material that I have access to (Which is to say I don't own all the various movies or TV shows we commonly mention here). I even used the test video that someone made. The one with the white square that is supposed to show fBr. But I found one test content that always shows fBr so I made the call for the fix.

I too do not have a all the movies mentioned in the test material and the white square test does not show me anything. (or maybe I am not able to see it.) It would be a gr8 help if you could let us know what other test you found so that others who do not have access to all those movies can test their sets.

Thanks a lot

[ProfWho]

Ok, I have a Feb. Build ST30 and I have not noticed any FBr problems yet. That said I have never looked for them. I am wondering if i should though since now there is a fix and hell, i woud rather get the fix in warrenty than notice it out of warrenty and have to pay. I have the Incredibles, Dark Knight, and Harry Potter Movies. Can I get any suggestions of where I should go in those films to notice them? If I don't notice them I won't call Panny. If I do, hopefully a service tech with am SD card will solve it.

[jkozlow3]

This may be a silly question, but if we reenter in our post calibration service menu (SM)numbers, will we be pretty much back to where we were prior to the A-Board replacement?

I believe so. I'm going to measure my greyscale with my i1D2 in an hour or so to confirm. That said, the i1D2 isn't the most accurate meter and isn't particularly good for comparing measurements taken on different days. I believe my picture looks very close to the way it did before replacing the A board after re-entering my calibrated SM values however.

I took some measurements with my i1D2 tonight using the new A board with my OLD A board's transferred calibrated service menu drive/cut values (personal calibration).

In short, the measurements were very close. The i1D2 will yield slightly different measurements on any given day, so I think the numbers are close enough to be completely transferable without any significant difference. As a result, I would not hesitate to copy values from one A board to another using the same panel. The results should be close enough to be virtually indistinguishable just as Gotchaa has indicated previously.

Panasonic should have made this step part of the fix, regardless of if your display had been previously calibrated or not. Replacing an A board with factory default drives/cuts that have not been adjusted to meet the color temp factory specs on your specific panel is a crap move. It wouldn't be very hard for the tech to spend 2 minutes copying these settings down and plugging them back in after the swap. Believe me, if I hadn't calibrated my display and taken note of the settings myself, Panasonic would be paying for a calibration or sending me a new TV. I'd have made sure of this and fought for it as long as need be until it happened, as the factory A board color temp settings do not look right on my panel at all. Fortunately, I was able to remedy this myself, but the consumer should not have to be responsible for doing so.

[Ryebread]

My board was replaced yesterday. Watched some Breaking Bad, which I see fluctuating brightness in all of the time. I had to really focus on a scene to notice anything even close to FBr. Very satisfied with this solution. Now to get it calibrated...

[Dave_O]

Panasonic should have made this step part of the fix, regardless of if your display had been previously calibrated or not. Replacing an A board with factory default drives/cuts that have not been adjusted to meet the color temp factory specs on your specific panel is a crap move. ....

Agreed. A related issue is whether a fresh board with no adjustments would cause the THX certification to be significantly off spec.

[th3r]

Ok, I have a Feb. Build ST30 and I have not noticed any FBr problems yet. That said I have never looked for them. I am wondering if i should though since now there is a fix and hell, i woud rather get the fix in warrenty than notice it out of warrenty and have to pay. I have the Incredibles, Dark Knight, and Harry Potter Movies. Can I get any suggestions of where I should go in those films to notice them? If I don't notice them I won't call Panny. If I do, hopefully a service tech with am SD card will solve it.

sorry this might be a bit more work to track down the scenes since i don't have the exact minute mark for the movies (i'm at work), but i can give you two scenes from the Incredibles and TDK where I see consistent FBr.

for TDK, the last chapter, when Gordon starts his monologue, in the parts where Gordon is actually on the screen, i see FBr on the wall's behind him.

for the Incredibles, after Mr. Incredible puts his boss in the hospital, and he's talking to the government agent/adjuster, when the agent is in the elevator, i see FBr in the elevator walls.

hope that helps

[will7046]

Is there a way to backup all of the TV settings to an SD card, including Cut and Drive settings, via the service menu before the Board swap? I am scheduled for A-board replacement on Tuesday and this has me worried about the swap eliminating the factory calibration settings.

Thanks

[rgladiator]

Which test?

The one marvguitar posted. http://vimeo.com/26189718

Side note: every time I see marvguitar, I say it in my head as macgyver.

[jkozlow3]

Is there a way to backup all of the TV settings to an SD card, including Cut and Drive settings, via the service menu before the Board swap? I am scheduled for A-board replacement on Tuesday and this has me worried about the swap eliminating the factory calibration settings.

Thanks

Supposedly, there is. The techs are not doing this though for some reason, and I don't know if anyone here knows the steps required to do so (maybe Gotchaa).

I would write down your settings yourself and then restore them afterward.

Here are the steps to VIEW/RECORD the values:

Turn on the TV.
While holding down the Vol - (minus) on the back/right side of the display, press the “info” button on the remote 3 times - release when you see the banner come up on the screen.
The service menu appears after a few seconds.
Press 1 twice (2x) on the remote to get to the “WB-Adjust” screen.
Press 7 on the remote until the color temperature says “Warm“.
Press 3 on the remote to cycle through R-DRV, G-DRV, B-DRV, R-CUT, G-CUT and B-CUT (NEVER CHANGE THE ALL-DRV and ALL-CUT VALUES).
Write each of the values down.
Hit 7 on the remote and repeat the steps for "Normal" and "Cool" modes, notating each drive/cut value.
Turn off the TV to exit the service menu (you can use the remote).

FYI: Warm in the SM = Warm 2 in the user menu and Cool in the SM = Cool 2 in the user menu. As far as I can tell, Cool 1 and Warm 1 are a "blend" of Normal & Cool2 and Normal & Warm2 if that makes sense.


To EDIT the values, you simply use the volume +/- buttons on the remote while you're viewing the setting you wish to change (i.e. R-DRV, B-DRV - you probably won't need to change any of the cuts or the green drive if you're simply restoring factory settings after an A board swap). NEVER change the ALL-CUT or ALL-DRV settings! To restore all of your settings after an A board swap, you will need to do so for the WARM, NORMAL and COOL color temps. In addition, you need to repeat these steps using both an HD signal as well as an SD signal for EACH of the 3 color temps. The menu will indicate if you are receiving an HD vs. an SD signal while making adjustments. You'll need to switch between an SD signal (i.e. 480i) and an HD one (i.e. 1080i) to input the settings for both the SD and HD color matrixes for each of the 3 color temps.

Hope this helps - I am not responsible if you mess something up!

[jkozlow3]

Agreed. A related issue is whether a fresh board with no adjustments would cause the THX certification to be significantly off spec.

Yes, I believe it would, although I question how my display met THX certification out of the box with it's rough factory calibration. Warm 2 was too warm for sure on my display, yielding fleshtones that were too red in most instances unless I significantly decreased color saturation (i.e. a value of "45"). Warm 1 was a bit too cool and made everything a bit purpleish. Fortunately, I was able to decrease the red drive by a few points and boost the blue drive by several points in the service menu using my i1D2 to fix the color temp. This SIGNIFICANTLY improved my picture using THX mode.

If other people's A board swaps wipe out the original SM drives/cuts like mine did, I don't see how these displays will meet THX certification at all. Fortunately, I was able to transfer my calibrated service menu settings after the A board swap, and the settings transferred very nicely, measuring roughly the same with the new A board.

[jmpage2]

So, if I'm understanding correctly, the issue with swapping the A board and seeing a PQ variation could have to do with the offsets that are tweaked to adjust each panel properly for variation vs. some mysterious variation in A boards. In other words, the A board getting swapped leaves one with a completely default board setup.

If that is the case, then Panasonic should reconsider how they are doing these updates, so that the techs can back those settings up via SD card and then restore them once the new board is put in.

[jkozlow3]

So, if I'm understanding correctly, the issue with swapping the A board and seeing a PQ variation could have to do with the offsets that are tweaked to adjust each panel properly for variation vs. some mysterious variation in A boards. In other words, the A board getting swapped leaves one with a completely default board setup.

If that is the case, then Panasonic should reconsider how they are doing these updates, so that the techs can back those settings up via SD card and then restore them once the new board is put in.

Your understanding is correct based on my experience with my A board swap. No one else has reported whether their A board swap also wiped out their factory calibrated drives/cuts, but I'm assuming it would since they appear to be stored on the board. Interestingly, several people indicated that the SD card update method did NOT wipe out the factory drives/cuts as it apparently just makes the necessary updates to the chip vs. putting a new chip in the display altogether when an A board swap is done.

I agree - Panasonic should have made the backup/restore of the original SM drives/cuts a mandatory step when replacing the A board. A major oversight IMO.

[Joepro]

Supposedly, there is. The techs are not doing this though for some reason, and I don't know if anyone here knows the steps required to do so (maybe Gotchaa).

From the Service Manual:
User settings data (incl. Hotel mode settings data), Channel scan data and Adjustment & factory preset data can be copied to an SD card prior to an A-board swap. The procedure looks like this: insert an empty SD card in your PC and create an empty boardreplace.pwd file. Turn your TV on and insert the SD card in the slot. A password prompt will appear on the TV. Enter 2770. The transfer will start automatically and take around 2-6 minutes. When the transfer is complete, remove the SD card and turn off the TV. The instructions to write the settings back appear to be exactly the same, but you need to enter 2771 instead.

I have not tested this, so use at your own risk.

[rgladiator]

So, if I'm understanding correctly, the issue with swapping the A board and seeing a PQ variation could have to do with the offsets that are tweaked to adjust each panel properly for variation vs. some mysterious variation in A boards. In other words, the A board getting swapped leaves one with a completely default board setup.

If that is the case, then Panasonic should reconsider how they are doing these updates, so that the techs can back those settings up via SD card and then restore them once the new board is put in.

Actually, it wouldn't help. The deviation from the default A-board is different for each TV. In other words, your current A-board may have been adjusted by 5 clicks. The new A-board, if it went through the same factory process, may have been adjusted by 8 clicks. Restoring it back to 5 clicks would still not put you back where you were. This would only work if by pure chance the new A-board and the old A-board would have been adjusted by exactly the same amount at the factory.

Plus, at the factory they are targeting a range, not an exact adjustment. So the same guy (or who/what ever makes these adjustments) may have adjusted the exact same settings differently if he did it on a different day or at a different time.

[jkozlow3]

Actually, it wouldn't help. The deviation from the default A-board is different for each TV. In other words, your current A-board may have been adjusted by 5 clicks. The new A-board, if it went through the same factory process, may have been adjusted by 8 clicks. Restoring it back to 5 clicks would still not put you back where you were. This would only work if by pure chance the new A-board and the old A-board would have been adjusted by exactly the same amount at the factory.

Plus, at the factory they are targeting a range, not an exact adjustment. So the same guy (or who/what ever makes these adjustments) may have adjusted the exact same settings differently if he did it on a different day or at a different time.

I believe the variance from display to display is related much more to the panel itself vs. the A board. I restored my calibrated settings after my A board swap and they measured roughly the same with my meter. No, settings cannot be transferred from panel to panel, but your post (unless I'm misinterpreting it) makes it sound like restoring the settings to another board which is used with the same panel will not yield the same result and this is not what I experienced. Results were basically identical after the restore on my display.