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Thread: Ceiling 6.0 Speaker Setup + 1.1 In-Wall (Possibly 7.0 + Regular 0.1) ~ $2000

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    Default Ceiling 6.0 Speaker Setup + 1.1 In-Wall (Possibly 7.0 + Regular 0.1) ~ $2000


    Alright, so I have a bit of a challenge for you guys. I hardly know anything about speakers that go in the ceiling but after much argument, this is what my parents said they want in their living room because they want nothing on the floors. They drilled the holes in the places I told them and basically, I figure the following is what I need...

    Ceiling speakers are usually circular and commonly around a 6" diameter so that's what I told them it will most likely be. They now expect that so I hope I wasn't wrong. The front and back two pairs will obviously need to be able to tilt or at least be built already tilted at a predetermined angle. The side pair needs to be facing down as they will practically be right above.

    In order for this to work properly, I assumed the center would also have to be a ceiling speaker but they didn't want it; I told them it will sound ridiculous if, for example, there's supposed to be a helicopter flying around you - I tried to explain. Any in-wall speaker that'd go above the TV or one that just mounts on top of it would be a better solution than what they're telling me they want to do. I think I can convince them of that.

    Lastly, the subwoofer also must be in-wall. I know that's not very good and this kind of setup is way more expensive but that's why the budget is relatively high for it.

    I presume the right way to go about this is up to $400 per ceiling pair, up to $500 for the subwoofer, and $100-$250 for the center. A little more for whichever of those three would be okay, if there's something that'll be found well worth it, relative to whatever is for a little less. If you're wondering about a receiver, we already have one :D It's pretty good - a Yamaha.

    Suggestions for any part of this setup are really appreciated. Thanks in advance, sincerely. Some more info might be necessary that I didn't think of so please ask if it helps

    EDIT: Even my grandfather understands that a subwoofer shouldn't go inside the wall by any means. There is hope yet. Maybe to make things a bit easier, an appropriate regular sub can be searched for instead. Also, we're working under the assumption that the center speaker is also in-ceiling. I know that's wrong but nothing I can do for now.

    -David
    Last edited by Typhoon859; 07-09-2010 at 10:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Typhoon859 View Post
    Alright, so I have a bit of a challenge for you guys. I hardly know anything about speakers that go in the ceiling but after much argument, this is what my parents said they want in their living room because they want nothing on the floors. They drilled the holes in the places I told them and basically, I figure the following is what I need...

    Ceiling speakers are usually circular and commonly around a 6" diameter so that's what I told them it will most likely be. They now expect that so I hope I wasn't wrong. The front and back two pairs will obviously need to be able to tilt or at least be built already tilted at a predetermined angle. The side pair needs to be facing down as they will practically be right above.

    In order for this to work properly, I assumed the center would also have to be a ceiling speaker but they didn't want it; I told them it will sound ridiculous if, for example, there's supposed to be a helicopter flying around you - I tried to explain. Any in-wall speaker that'd go above the TV or one that just mounts on top of it would be a better solution than what they're telling me they want to do. I think I can convince them of that.

    Lastly, the subwoofer also must be in-wall. I know that's not very good and this kind of setup is way more expensive but that's why the budget is relatively high for it.

    I presume the right way to go about this is up to $400 per ceiling pair, up to $500 for the subwoofer, and $100-$250 for the center. A little more for whichever of those three would be okay, if there's something that'll be found well worth it, relative to whatever is for a little less. If you're wondering about a receiver, we already have one :D It's pretty good - a Yamaha.

    Suggestions for any part of this setup are really appreciated. Thanks in advance, sincerely. Some more info might be necessary that I didn't think of so please ask if it helps

    -David
    Hi David,

    Without question, this is a job for Mr. Zohn. PM Robert about this, solicit his advice and follow his instructions to the letter. The in-wall subwoofer in particular is going to cause headaches. Also, I think it would be better by far to do the main speakers in-wall, not in the ceiling, for the reasons you've already cited. But PM Robert Zohn and see what he advises.

    Yours,

    one of the other Davids

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidjschenk View Post
    Hi David,

    Without question, this is a job for Mr. Zohn. PM Robert about this, solicit his advice and follow his instructions to the letter. The in-wall subwoofer in particular is going to cause headaches. Also, I think it would be better by far to do the main speakers in-wall, not in the ceiling, for the reasons you've already cited. But PM Robert Zohn and see what he advises.

    Yours,

    one of the other Davids
    Sounds great, thanks! I said the same thing about the subwoofer. Also, I advised them to put all three front speakers in the ceiling. That way, the sound would be balanced. I didn't think it would get into their head to leave the center one out and that's it. With the front speakers in-wall and the side and back in-ceiling, it would still sound kinda messed up often. I decided that for now, it's better one screwed up than three and I'll try to optimize the center as best I can like hanging/placing it high up.

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    Generally speaking, your center speaker is going to be doing the lion's share of the work, so I'd spend some extra dollars there, if I could free some up. (My center, for example, cost the same as both front mains put together.)

    In-wall and in-ceiling weren't options for me, so we've just arrived at the limit of what I can suggest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by trent.memphis View Post
    Generally speaking, your center speaker is going to be doing the lion's share of the work, so I'd spend some extra dollars there, if I could free some up. (My center, for example, cost the same as both front mains put together.)

    In-wall and in-ceiling weren't options for me, so we've just arrived at the limit of what I can suggest.
    Yeah, but if I get an overly powerful center speaker, that would make the unbalance even more prominent. I'd apply that logic if all the speakers were the same, but even then not overly so unless I was planning on getting all the speakers close to/equally as good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Typhoon859 View Post
    Yeah, but if I get an overly powerful center speaker, that would make the unbalance even more prominent. I'd apply that logic if all the speakers were the same, but even then not overly so unless I was planning on getting all the speakers close to/equally as good.
    Not true, actually. Any good audio-visual receiver you get these days comes with audio calibration software and a very sensitive microphone meant specifically for the calibration. When it's done, your center channel, even if several times more powerful than the others, will in no way imbalance the sound. The volume in each individual channel gets very precisely modulated to fit the contours of the room and cooperate fully with the relative volume levels of all other speakers.

    Yours,

    David

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidjschenk View Post
    Not true, actually. Any good audio-visual receiver you get these days comes with audio calibration software and a very sensitive microphone meant specifically for the calibration. When it's done, your center channel, even if several times more powerful than the others, will in no way imbalance the sound. The volume in each individual channel gets very precisely modulated to fit the contours of the room and cooperate fully with the relative volume levels of all other speakers.

    Yours,

    David
    Well, that I know of course. By "more powerful" and "unbalanced" I didn't mean loudness. I meant just the kind of sound itself. To make the difference greater and what I was saying clearer, try to imagine the crappiest speakers all around and a really good center speaker. For movies it can be okay if the center channel is simply used for voices all the time but imagine music 0.0 The sound would be wimpy and at points great, coming from the center.

    Let's assume the center speaker will also be ceiling bound like the rest. I might actually be able to convince them of that. If anything, the center channel can be ignored for now since I can't care about something that they don't/didn't allow me to.

    A question I do have though is.. well, about something I might've made a mistake on. Originally planned was to have the front three speakers in the wall at ear level. That's great but only if the rest were the same I was thinking. The least flexibility was the side and back, meaning, they definitely were going to be on top. Since that was the case, I thought having them all on top would be way more balanced (among other things which I can't form into coherent thoughts). I didn't find it possible that ONE speaker would be wanted left as is but as I said, let's ignore that for now. So.. which of those two options is actually better (assuming center is also on top and all fronts are of better quality to compensate a little)?

    EDIT: Even my grandfather understands that a subwoofer shouldn't go inside the wall by any means. There is hope yet. Maybe to make things a bit easier, an appropriate regular sub can be searched for instead.
    Last edited by Typhoon859; 07-09-2010 at 10:07 PM.

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    First of all what everyone is trying to say about the center speaker is that you need to allow more money in the budget for that speaker MOST of the sound comes from that speaker. It WILL NOT sound unbalanced. 2nd of all, all of your speakers NEED to be timbre matched This is of the up most importance if they are not timbre matched you WILL have unbalanced sound. When buying speakers even piece by piece they come in matched lines so basically when you go to buy your front's and spend $400-$500 there is 99.9% chance that the matched center speaker although only a single speaker is going to cost $400-$500. 3rd of all If it were me I would absolutely make the front sound stage in walls they will sound 100% better there (if that is a possiblity). Now it will be totally okay to put all the rears in the ceiling it will not sound unbalanced in fact the rears are supposed to be set higher than the front's in all cases.
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    Quote Originally Posted by caliberconst. View Post
    First of all what everyone is trying to say about the center speaker is that you need to allow more money in the budget for that speaker MOST of the sound comes from that speaker. It WILL NOT sound unbalanced. 2nd of all, all of your speakers NEED to be timbre matched This is of the up most importance if they are not timbre matched you WILL have unbalanced sound. When buying speakers even piece by piece they come in matched lines so basically when you go to buy your front's and spend $400-$500 there is 99.9% chance that the matched center speaker although only a single speaker is going to cost $400-$500. 3rd of all If it were me I would absolutely make the front sound stage in walls they will sound 100% better there (if that is a possiblity). Now it will be totally okay to put all the rears in the ceiling it will not sound unbalanced in fact the rears are supposed to be set higher than the front's in all cases.
    That was my fear from the very start. That's why I didn't want front in-wall speakers and side and back in-ceiling speakers. I didn't say too much opposite to what you've just provided. If the center speaker is a stadium speaker while the L&R speakers are $50 Logitech speakers, the sound will be unbalanced, and that's why I mentioned, if the center was MUCH more expensive.

    And yeah, I think that is what will be done. Fronts will be in-wall though unbalanced it will definitely be - better than all in-ceiling though if limited to a $2000 budget. You said yourself "timber matched". But it's okay, I understand now that's what needs to be done.

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